In this episode Reggie and Lora discuss the often misunderstood reality of this condition, unmasking how it's not just about introversion or shyness, but can span from mild discomfort to a full-blown fear of stepping outside.
In this episode Reggie and Lora discuss the often misunderstood reality of this condition, unmasking how it's not just about introversion or shyness, but can span from mild discomfort to a full-blown fear of stepping outside.
Georgia, coming to you from the love of city of Atlanta, georgia, going out to now Houston, texas, with Laura. We've been all over the state with Laura here, and now we are back in Houston. How is it going, laura?
Speaker 2:Everything's going well. Yes, I will be all over the state for the next few years. Yes, you never know where I'm going to pop up in the big state of Texas.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because I read a statistic that most people that are it was something like in the seven maybe even 80% of people who were born in Texas don't leave Texas, which is interesting. Right In Georgia it's like in the 70. In Georgia it's like 74% maybe, but it's an interesting statistic that people I guess in Texas, laura, just don't want to go nowhere else, which is very interesting to me.
Speaker 2:That can be even better. What do you attribute that to?
Speaker 1:Is that like the size?
Speaker 2:I think it depends on how you look at it. That can be good or bad. If it's complacency or afraid to venture out, then it's not good. But if it's such an amazing state, which I love it.
Speaker 1:That depends on how you look at it, laura. It depends on what angle you're taking that perspective from. I think so, laura. You touched on one thing there the size of the state In Texas. You can go so far away from where you were born and still be in Texas.
Speaker 2:You'll be traveling days. If you go from the top to the bottom, it could literally take days. It's huge. It's just a huge state.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting because I've never been there. Maybe I need to come. I could come visit Houston's, the only place I would really like would want to come. I'm not knocking the other places. I'm not knocking your analysis or your San Antonio's of the world. Houston's Houston, that's like an internationally known place. I would love to come there. Come hang out at some point.
Speaker 2:Yes, that would be great.
Speaker 1:Today we're going to talk about social anxiety. You know I love hitting you with these mental health, all the mental health questions and all the mental health issues and stuff like that. We have another one of those today. This is interesting because I work in a social business and I had a co-worker who suffers from this. I think with social anxiety, as with some of the other mental health issues, it's an issue that's kind of unseen, you don't really know somebody has it. It can be called, I guess, social phobia. I'm looking at my note here social phobia the textbook definition is everyday social interactions that can cause irrational anxiety, fear, self-consciousness and embarrassment. Before you even go further into that, have you ever met anybody with social anxiety before yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think more people have social anxiety than we know. I think sometimes they don't even know that there's a term for them being introverted or them just really not wanting to go out, I think, and, of course, anything. It can range from severe to just kind of like I would rather not go to, I cannot leave my house, right, right, yeah, but I definitely know people who are like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Does it present itself in different ways? You were just kind of touched on a little bit, laura, of it being on a spectrum. To a certain degree it's not like a one-size-fit-all type of issue. We have the disorder in the way where people basically got to leave everything outside. They don't even want to talk to people that come to deliver their stuff, they want to just grab it from outside or they need somebody. They got to hire somebody to go outside for them and do things on their behalf. When you've seen it or have dealt with it, what has been the degree that you've seen it yourself?
Speaker 2:I've seen, probably moderate, and so I think it's important to say that I'm not a mental health professional. I don't have a license, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So to diagnose or treat anyone.
Speaker 2:Can't diagnose you on the show, but there are definitely people who, for various reasons, don't want to interact with kind of the things that are outside. I lost my thought there. There's definitely people who, for whatever reason, just don't want to interact with other people and that can be because they look at TV and maybe there are lots of different things that are happening, or it could be that it really is a diagnosis that they have from a mental health professional. But most of the people that I know it's not very severe. I would really say that a lot of people I met someone, I think, not too long ago and they just really didn't want to interact with people, didn't want to go a lot of places and come to find out they had spent a lot of time in prison and it really made sense to me once they explained that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Once they explained that, it made perfect sense to me. It wasn't just a matter of being introverted, it was really that they just didn't. They weren't very comfortable navigating in the outside world yet.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because I I would struggle with if I was, if this was something that I had. Some people are just shy, right, and this is something that seven to thirteen of Americans do have. So. But some people just don't want to be bothered, right, like a. You know. Sometimes, you know, it's a situation where you just don't like social jobs, you want to just deal with a computer. I see that with a bunch of so-called like nerds. You know, nerd culture at one point Was that person that would just rather be by themselves or deal virtually with other human beings and not deal with them in Person, like having to talk to them and having to deal. I guess maybe they feel like there's some societal pressures there. I don't, I don't know if that's that's one of the things that kind of factors in, but I do think that there's some people. What's the difference between, I, I guess, just being just shy and then having this disorder, you know, and and it's shyness on the spectrum way down there somewhere?
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't know again, I'm not a mental health professional, but I do think that there is. There are times where people are very socially awkward, you know. You know just that they're not very comfortable. Maybe that comes with a level of maturity, or it may come with a level of that. They just haven't been exposed to a lot of social settings. And then there are people who you know, who really think that Something horrible is gonna happen to them if they leave, or you know people are, you know, maybe it's, you know, they're germaphobes or Different things like that.
Speaker 2:So I think there's definitely a difference in like kind of your level of maturity, or maybe Just kind of an awkwardness where you don't always feel like you fit in socially or you know, you're uncomfortable there. I think that's the key thing. Like, is it? Is it just that someone is uncomfortable or is it that they really are? Like there's a fear, you know, and so I think probably that's that's the big difference. Like, you know, I will, but I don't want to, as opposed to I, I just can't. Like I'm gonna freeze with fear. You know, I'm frozen with fear.
Speaker 1:Now, have you ever had just moments like that in life, because I feel like we all experienced in some social awkwardness, right? I Definitely have been blessed with, because I've been in a social job. That's made things so much easier for me, laura, because I socialize for a living. It's making so much easier, like because I get a lot of practice at it. You know, I don't have to, I Can beat a lot of real-world situations. I get a lot of real-world Practice which I feel like with no matter what you're doing, whether it's dating or making friends and stuff like that Some of that stuff just takes practice. Do you think that's? No, that is people looking at how easy it is for other people and just thinking like I just can't be like that. You know they, they can just go out their social butterflies, they're mixing it up and I'm scared to even talk to one person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does take practice and I think there are people who naturally are very gifted in, you know, being very sociable and friendly, and they are social butterflies.
Speaker 2:So there's definitely a difference in, like, your personality or what you do, but it does take practice to get out there, and I mean there are thousands of books you know, like, how to not be socially Awkward at you know your Christmas party or you know things like that, and so sometimes it just takes Kind of getting out of there and getting out of your comfort zone and, I think, also recognizing if it's just a matter of you getting out of your comfort zone or do you really like you know you start sweating and you know your stomach starts hurting or you get.
Speaker 2:Those are things where I think people need to go and speak to someone, like if they physically are getting Very nervous and it's not just, you know, butterflies like the average person, because we all, you know, are often in situations that you know we're not, we're unsure of. But if it's keeping, I think, one from just Really having a life because I think it's important to be social to some point, you know then I think it's it's best that somebody sees a professional. I think that's when you know it's more than just you know I really enjoy being by myself.
Speaker 1:Right, because there are those people. I work with those people too and it can be social, but they don't like being around people, yeah.
Speaker 2:Right and people know I think I Respect someone who is Not a social person. You know, telling me I really am. I'm not talkative, don't you know? It's not you. I just am not that person. So I respect that. I've seen a lot of like social anxiety test.
Speaker 1:When I was doing some like research for this episode, I saw a lot of like social anxiety test that you could take online and stuff.
Speaker 1:And I'm just wondering for people that are mental health Professionals, like, how is this to diagnose versus other Situations?
Speaker 1:Because I feel like you have every right to just not want to be bothered if you don't want to be bothered, right Like you have every right to not have to socialize if you don't really feel like it and then necessarily mean you're, you're afflicted with a mental health issue or it doesn't mean that you Some things like inherently wrong with you. You just might not want to deal with people you know. So I wonder how hard it is for them to deal with that and and I think that's a good thing to deal with that. And and I think that you make a good point in the sense of, like, when things start to maybe get physical for you, maybe it is a situation where if you are Literally having stomach aches, cold sweats and you just don't even want to, that even the thought of you're not even communicating at even a thought of Communicating, laura, for some people, like that's all it takes To get going and imagining every awkward situation in life that could happen to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so their anxiety is a real diagnosis, like it really is, and it physically Will make people sick, and so it's. It's relatively easy for a health professional and you don't have to be a psychiatrist to kind of recognize when somebody is having a Panic attack or they're having anxiety. And I think, more and more what we see is that you can do everything from the comfort of your home you can shop, yes, and you can have meetings, and you can do everything. And I think at some point what I'm sure health professionals and psychiatrists and therapists are saying is that there has to be this healthy balance, like at some point it's if you have no human interaction, that takes a toll on you as well. And I know some people say, oh, you know, I'm fine if I never have to leave the house, and I'm sure they, I'm sure they are.
Speaker 2:But when you think about, just even in COVID, how we recognized the impact of Children not being able to socialize because that's a big part of going to school you know, yeah, not just the education, but being able to socialize. And being able to, while we're talking about social anxiety, being able to Be in a situation where there are several people and maybe you Want to, you know you don't want to stand out or you Don't know who to connect with and things like that those situations can help you do that as a child, so that you don't grow up and, you know, have these panic attacks because you have to, you know, go to the mall or Right, at some point, lord, they're gonna get a good.
Speaker 1:They gotta leave the crib at some point. Right, like you For something, right for for like something. And you're gonna be woefully unprepared for for these interactions. And I do think that you're right in a sense of like the. You learn a lot of that growing up, right, when you're our force, the force interaction. I call it like a few schooling or you know, even when you get, you gotta get jobs and stuff like that. These things are kind of forcing you to interact with others.
Speaker 1:Now I'm wondering Cuz Kobe you know I was reading social Social anxiety post around the time that Kobe and how a lot of those posts were like this is just normal life for us, like now that now the world feels like how we feel all the time, type situation and this is just another day for us, type thing.
Speaker 1:And I wonder if Kobe did I Wanted that it hurt or help them like people that might have already been Dealing with this, because you know the world is kind of coming to you at that point because you are Already in the house and now everybody had to be into in the house for a certain period of time. I wonder if that made it Better or worse for them in that sense, you know, and not just that does did the things that were left over from COVID. For as far as the work from home situation, which you know, some offices are trying to claw them back, claw them back into the office. You do see that happening, but the work and end of deliveries and stuff like that, you don't really have to leave, you can get your groceries delivered, you can get everything delivered now and Amazon and stuff like that. Do you think that stuff makes it better or worse for people that have these Anxiety type of issues because they're not really getting any practice? They don't really have to right.
Speaker 2:They don't, we're not like you know. You said Many of them were saying now you get to see how we feel. Yeah but when you are a social person like that was not, that was hell having to be was torture, so it just depends on.
Speaker 2:You know if you already were this, you know Rick loose, or you know very Private person, or you know it didn't go out non-social, it didn't feel like anything, it was, it was your normal. But for people who are very accustomed to interacting with other people or who they need that human interaction, or you know that was Not good at all for them. So you know it. I'm sure COVID hurt a lot of people a lot in ways, and even the people who are social, who really loved working remotely. I do think you know that in some kind of way they've got to get some human interaction, even if it's not at work like I think they probably still are wanting to work remotely but they've got to have that human interaction. It has to come in some kind of some other form. You know Whether it's we're gonna meet in person for lunch or we're gonna, you know, some good life.
Speaker 2:Just just talking to other being in general right. Yeah, yeah, I think we all need that and I, you know it's. It's it's unhealthy to never have Human interaction. It's it's not unhealthy to to really be okay by yourself or you know, but it is. It is very unhealthy to never have any human interaction. It really is.
Speaker 1:And I think that people are social creatures. Right like that, that's right. Here I hear you mean beings were social creatures and it would seem to me that that, that it would be beneficial to everybody. But I know that life often times, Laura, is not a one-size-fits-all type situation. You know I was. It was driving me crazy. I know I felt pretty good that first month or so.
Speaker 2:After that first month I'm like I gotta get out of my house and I gotta find a way to talk to somebody.
Speaker 1:Now, what's interesting about this and I would say probably one of the more important things that I've been doing is Probably one of the more unfortunate things is that this is a it's a chronic mental health disorder. That means that that's something that they're gonna be dealing with most of their lives right.
Speaker 1:It's. It's something they're gonna have to constantly deal with. Another thing about this particular mental health disorder is how many things it touches in your life, how many aspects of your life it touches. So it'll touch your friendships, your family relationships, your actual Relationships from, like, a romantic standpoint, your job situation. You know it touches on all these different things. I wonder how people who are dealing with these type of issues are actually Getting jobs at all. Like, is it just maybe because you're forced? You're like well, I gotta eat. So the power to eat is is more, it's stronger than the, the. So the anxiety portion, you know, I wonder how that. I wonder how that is and how they're dealing with that portion of things.
Speaker 2:I mean, therapy helps a lot. I don't know if there are any medications. I know that there are medications for people who are anxious, who have different disorders. There is medication, but I think you have to also first feel like it's at that point Many times when people are going through various mental health conditions, either because they don't think they need it, or they'll take meds and then be okay and then say, well, I'm okay, so I don't take any meds anymore. But also, therapy helps a lot when you have someone who's trained, who's licensed and who can talk you through situations, depending on the severity. It's scary out there. You look at the news and there are terrible things happening. There are mass shootings, so that could play a big part in it as well. I don't like to go out and this further confirms that I need to stay at home because of all of these things happening. So I think therapy is really good. Some therapeutic sessions that take place? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:I agree with that, because even talking to the therapist is talking to another human being. It's at least a start. You know what I mean. It's a start. I'm not saying that there's any expectation that anybody that does have social anxiety would just jump out and then be social butterfly overnight and now they're talking to everybody. I feel like that will cause more anxiety. It's interesting because I think that if you're talking to a therapist, you're at least talking and that's where it starts. It starts with you talking and seeing that things maybe aren't as bad as they are in your head.
Speaker 1:A lot of times we all think of the worst case scenario. That's something that really I think afflicts all of us. I don't know if anybody is just super confident all the time. I mean, I want some of that, if somebody just super confident all the time that everything's just always going to work out. Please give me some of what you're having. But from a medication standpoint, that was a very interesting point you bring up, because I know that there's antidepressants, I know that there's stuff like medicine for bipolar and stuff like that and with these type of issues you can tell when somebody's off their meds, so to speak. Their behavior changes dramatically If they're not taking their meds. It's something that you can. They can have manic episodes and stuff like that Stuff. That's very easy for you to see. But if a person's just shy and then they're on some meds, they're talkative and then they're just back shy again, how do you know if it's just not a bad day? Because we all have those days where we just don't feel like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, I think when you talk about somebody who's has, who has a chronic illness, these are things that they've been battling with like all of their lives. And there are people who are shy. There are definitely people who are shy and and Sometimes it's very difficult to distinguish the two and sometimes it's very easy, and that's why it's important for people to go to somebody who's trained to know the difference, because there's Reggie, you'd be you'd be shocked at how many disorders and behaviors, diagnoses that are out there and just as many of those, how many Prescription medicines there are to treat really disorders. Yeah, you know, you'd be shocked. I mean there's, and Because I'm not immensely, I'm not a trained professional, I I would know and I'm gonna be honest and my hat is off to every trained professional because it you know, just to be like a licensed, a therapist or psychiatrist, like there are Hundreds of hours on top of your schooling that you have to practice.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, they, they've seen all of these things in these case studies and these people, but I think even they have a hard time sometimes diagnosing Different disorders. You know, is it, yeah, bipolar or is it schizophrenia? Because they're very different but they have overlapping Signs and yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, a lot of these have the same. You know a Word that people are pretty afraid of, but that really is common If you read the symptoms and the characteristics is a sociopath, not a psychopath but a.
Speaker 2:And there are so many people who, like, if you were to read that, what a sociopath was. I guarantee you and everybody else looking at this would say, huh, I know a sociopath Because they would check off probably nine of the ten boxes of you know, because it could also be. That's a sociopath, is like the, the very far extreme. But when you go on the other end of it, it's it's just a narcissist, like you know, or somebody who just kind of lies to be lying, you know, or something like that. I know someone like that, right. So that's why it's important, when these symptoms pop up, that somebody who's trained to say, okay, this is not just somebody who's shy, like this is a real Phobia that they have. Like they really feel something is going to happen if they, if they don't do this, or they Will go into a panic attack if they are forced to go into a social situation, it's, it's something that's beyond being shy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I 100% agree with that, because I think that a lot of times it's one thing to have a Thought pattern in your head of like and I'm just gonna use this as an example of like, I'm not gonna get the job, but you still go to the interview and you still go through the motions, and then to say I'm not gonna get the job, so I don't even apply, like, I don't even leave the house, I don't even turn in application, I'm not even gonna think about it, because if I get the job, this could happen, this could happen, this could happen. Then you're thinking of all the range and which is crazy, lord, because there's a massive range of things that can happen in any situation, right, and in any situation. So I would imagine having that going haywire in your head all the time must be pretty debilitating For people. You know, and just try to think about one or two of those things when all those things are going on, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's definitely people who have chemical imbalances. They really cannot control these massive thoughts that are constantly running through their head. You know, like the average person, yeah, you're gonna say what if this happens, or. But for somebody who that it's a they're diagnosed like, it goes beyond what you and I could imagine In their head. In their head, you know, and that's the thing I say all the time about mental illness. It's not like if you break your arm or your leg and people see it, you know, and they say, oh, I'm so sorry, or if you can't or you're going through chemo. When it's a mental illness, and especially if it's somewhat controlled and you, you know, or you're on medication, you can't see that mental illness, but it still is very, very much so an illness and has to be treated as such.
Speaker 1:So a hundred percent agreed. And that's why like having these type of conversations, because I feel like, from from a mental health standpoint, it's so hard. You know people just like you know, just get over it. Right, I got that's, that's gonna be what it is right, pick yourself up. What are you doing? I get? Get over it, don't.
Speaker 1:Don't let like oh, you're over thinking to stop it exactly Exactly because in, I think, in a normal person they could stop those thoughts and then pivot to something else, versus a person who those thoughts are kind of like overrunning them to a certain degree and as we kind of close or come down the show. Here I, I would definitely. I'm not a doctor by any shape, form or fashion, and my bank account says that as well. It's not just me who says that, it's my entire life that says that I'm not, but it's kind of like a situation where I have I I do know that there are tips from being in a social business, from having to socialize All the time. I have them forced to be strangers around, tons of strangers every week. And I will tell you, first and foremost, it's practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. You shouldn't look at other people like they just have it all figured out, because no one has it all figured out. You know you, you're always gonna meet new people and you're always gonna meet new people that you have to communicate with them in a different way. You can't. There's no one size fits all, so there's no perfect solution and the therapy situation is great, if you can find, because I think that just starting Somewhere, laura, it doesn't even have to be in person, it can be virtual FaceTime just start. Just start somewhere.
Speaker 1:You know, and in practice, practice, I had friends who were really struggled with this. They were very I think that's just due to, maybe, like size. You know there's a Bigger guy, didn't really? So you know, bigger people they stick out. You me, I'm like five nine guy, I blend in everywhere. It doesn't matter where I'm at people, you know, I'm just blending in. But if your guy just like a little bit larger and stuff like that, you're already sticking out from like a physical standpoint, right, so that's exacerbating any kind of mental issue that you may have. So that was one of the things issues that he had and it took him just just starting to go ahead and push himself out the door, so to speak, and then just start going out and now he's way more of a social butterfly. And it took years I couldn't, it wasn't overnight. Yeah, it was years to do it. But I think that just starting, starting, helps there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Laura, this has always been a pleasure. It's always a pleasure having you on here, no matter what city you are in, laura, sometimes we are in San Antonio, sometimes I was. So what happened? Austin, or is Austin out of the mix? Are we not there? Are we never gonna be an Austin again?
Speaker 2:I'll be an Austin next month, not to live, but I will be traveling. I'll be an Austin next month, yes, and as large as the state is, I am determined to, just you know, continue to go to all the different cities and In and out of Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how long are you spending in these places when you go? Like, are you spending? Because what? There's many places as you go, laura, some like you're there for like an hour and a half. You get a cup of coffee, then you gotta move on to other city. You can't let any city hold you down. You got to get on to the next city. Like, how long are you spending when you go to places?
Speaker 2:most of the time, Well, with my new job it'll be a few days at a time because I'm going to like training and things like that. But I mean, if I go, san Antonio is an hour, you know, it's 78 miles from Austin. That's, that's a nice little drive. You know it's 50 miles from Houston. Why not drive like people commute 50, 60 miles to a job so To be able to go to a whole another city? You know, I think it's amazing, yeah, and every chance I get even Houston to Austin, dallas is probably the farthest. You know San Antonio. San Antonio is more south but Dallas is north Texas, so it's the farthest. It takes it takes a bit longer to get there by car, but you know, yeah, by car you can go to these cities and it's, I mean, you know, it's a nice little trip to To go what's your favorite?
Speaker 1:Laura, you're a Texas expert, so so give us your, your favorite. Now I know that what from Houston I know has significant cultural diversity is one of the places why, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to go to Houston, like why that's like my first. I love culturally diverse places, so what is your fave? Oh, so that's and that's me just talking out of my behind, by the way, cuz I've never been there.
Speaker 2:You won't dare give me to say my favorite.
Speaker 1:Is it like choosing between your kids, laura? Do you feel like or do you fight?
Speaker 2:they all offer something so different that they all offer something so very different that, which is also wonderful. You know, when you have a large, just like California, northern California is very different than southern California and so, yeah, texas is the same way. You've got, you know, hill Country, where you've got it's, it's scenic, you've got. I Mean it's so big that Literally anything that you want to do, anything that you want, you know, any place else that you want to mimic, you can do that in Texas. Yeah, but Houston by far is the most diverse, you know, larger, more populated City. So it's, I guess it's my favorite if I have to choose a favorite.
Speaker 1:Well, I definitely appreciate you taking some time out here and and jumping out here for that, houston being your, your maybe favorite.
Speaker 2:Would I'm gonna put.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna hold you that. Laura. I'm gonna say your maybe favorite is Houston and hopefully I get by there one day, thanks, thanks a lot for taking some time with us here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1:So, reginald atl, check us out, stitcher. I heart radio, google podcast, apple podcast, spotify, wherever you find your podcast. See you next time. All right, laura, what do you got going to rest of your day here? I'm gonna do.