In this episode we discuss the secrets of cultivating deeper intimacy and navigating the complexities of modern relationships with Caroline Chénier, intimacy and relationship coach and host of the "Sexplosion" podcast. We cover everything from the transformation of sexual desires in long-term relationships to the art of respectfully introducing open dialogue on ethical non-monogamy.
In this episode we discuss the secrets of cultivating deeper intimacy and navigating the complexities of modern relationships with Caroline Chénier, intimacy and relationship coach and host of the "Sexplosion" podcast. We cover everything from the transformation of sexual desires in long-term relationships to the art of respectfully introducing open dialogue on ethical non-monogamy.
This is Reginald T. I'm coming to you from the lovely city of Atlanta, georgia, going out to Paris, france, paris, france, with Caroline Shinye Did I say that, right I'm talking about? So, caroline, we've been trying to do this for a while and I've been so happy because you're a woman on the move, man, and you know it's not easy to catch up with you. Caroline, I'm so glad you're giving me a little sliver of your time here to bless the audience with your insight here. I know you're intimacy and relationship coach and we even need a lot more of guidance, because a lot of times when I'm on these shows it's just me and a bunch of guys, man, and nobody wants to hear that all the time. Caroline, we need somebody, we need the voice of reason to come in and tell us things from their perspective. So you do a show, caroline, called Sex Explosion. Tell me how that came about and tell me the kind of things that you discuss on that show.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it came about, because I am not shy when it comes to things that are intimacy and sexual and I'd be invited to a few podcasts and they say. This particular person called Gary said to me you've got to do this yourself, you've got to do a podcast, and he virtually forced me to do it. He said right, caroline, I've set it up, you're going to do it this weekend. And we did it and I've never looked back. And the things we talk about on there, I mean originally it's for women but in actual fact my audience is men. It's turned out to be men, especially since they've been on TikTok.
Speaker 2:Really? Yeah, absolutely. Because you see, women have their friends, they have their sisters, they have their mothers to talk to if there's a problem, but men don't. Men do not have somebody they can talk to. They're supposed to know it all. You know, if you read the book Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars by John Gray, he says we are like two different species. Men are the problem solvers, and if they've got a problem they go into their cave and they try and sort it out.
Speaker 2:And quite often, of course, we learn from our parents when it comes to communication. It's all mostly down to communication, and what we learn from our parents as children is how to communicate. We're not taught at school how to do it, we're not taught anywhere else, so we just have to muddle through life and try it, and what happens is that they use that form of communication and then it doesn't work and they don't know how else to do it because they don't know any other way of doing it other than what they've learned. And that's where I come in, and so, on the podcast, I give people an alternative way of looking at things and I talk about things that nobody talks about. The beauty of it all.
Speaker 1:How does it? Because I imagine when you're getting into I know, at least for me, when I was getting to start a podcast, I still feel like I'm in the beginning stages compared to some people have been doing this for a decade or so more. Were there things that surprised you when you started to do this show, that you went in and you had something unexpected, maybe an unexpected guest, an unexpected subject, something of that nature.
Speaker 2:Do you know what? One morning, at one o'clock in the morning, I woke up and I thought right, I need to do this podcast because I've been virtually forced by that chap called Gary. And so I got up. I did my background, which I haven't got up here, with an explosion of colour. I got the names explosion and I did six months of planning there and then. So I literally was writing down everything that people don't talk about. That's how I did it. So it was things like, well, sex parties, it was things like communication in marriage, polyamory relationships, and I called it sex and multiple. It's all sex and something sex and multiple lovers, sex and marriage, sex growing up, sex in the workplace you name it. We've talked about it, but there's so much more. I've still got another six months planning. There are 30 episodes in total. It's nearly it's the third year that I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow. Well, congrats on that I know how hard it is to come up with the content and always stay consistent, because, you know, I think there's something that's called like kind of like podcast fatigue, where people kind of get petite or trying to come up with subjects all the time, and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Not in this subject. Not in this subject. Honestly, there's always something to talk about and at the moment I've got somebody called. He calls himself the hippie because he looks like a hippie and he is amazing. He actually started to attend my live shows on TikTok and then in any in his answers. We're incredible from a man's point of view. So between us now we do explosions, so sometimes I do it on my own or I have him with me. So in the next few weeks we're doing swinging part two more in depth in swinging All right, we're going to be doing open relationship, stroke, ethical, non monogamy, four play. And also now he's an expert at unlocking a woman's fantasies and then playing on those fantasies so she gets the most amazing experience of her life.
Speaker 2:So that's what we're going to talk about in one of them. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So let me know we do that episode. I need to know it's coming up and there's one.
Speaker 2:Conditioning is one called conditioning too, because you see, conditioning is what stops us from actually opening up and letting ourselves talk about it, feel what we want to feel. I mean, that's what first started me do all this because I got into my sexual peak. And, going back a bit, I was conditioned as a child. I was brought up Catholic, like many, many people are, and what I learned was I couldn't, I couldn't, I wasn't allowed to enjoy it properly and I couldn't let myself go. So I went through my, my young years like doing it, but not like it's for tarts. I'm not. You know, if I enjoy it, then I'm, I'm a, I'm an autogum, not dirty girl, you know. That's how. And then one day I was in my sexual peak.
Speaker 2:For most women it starts, it can start from 38 years old and go right through to 53, lasted eight to 10 years for me. And it was in that time I suddenly I was in my favorite FB FWB friends with benefits Sorry, it wasn't that one is FB buddy, right. And I thought to myself do you know what? I was all dressed up? I put a feather bower, I put my, my lovely lingerie on and I had these special boots I called FMBs. Fuck me boots, sorry for the square.
Speaker 1:Okay, whatever you want.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I will then, and I had my fishnet tights on. I opened the door right and he was like, oh my God. So anyway, I was dressed like that and I just thought, you know, I just just came over and I thought, do you know what? I'm just going to let myself go. Oh my goodness, it was like the electricity had been switched on.
Speaker 2:It was incredible, and it was from that point onwards I thought to myself the amount of women at the time it was women the amount of women that are shutting themselves off, like I was, and I wanted to help them release themselves and just become the goddess that they are, you know. So then I started doing a load of like video not videos, but actual courses, you know. So you know how to sexually release yourself, how to become a sexually what did I call it now, sexually something woman, you know. So, yeah, so yeah. It is incredible. The things that we talk about on this show and these next ones are even more amazing than any of the others. They're all get better and better as we go along.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, and one of the things that you said that I wanted to kind of key on here is I think this is something that we said before we got on here and that is kind of like what your audience being mostly men Is that something that surprised you at first?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, when I was on TikTok see, I was on Instagram, facebook, linkedin and on those oh yeah, on those platforms for five years, hardly any interaction, hardly any likes or anything like that and it got to the point where it was like what is going on? Then, by the same person, gary said you've got to go on TikTok, that's where you need to go. And it's from that moment onwards that men started contacting me. Men were the ones that needed the help, hardly any women. There are women that contact me where their husbands don't want sex, but it's more the other way around, where women don't want it and the men are just at their wits end. They don't know what to do. They're so frustrated, they're so resentful, they're so angry that when they communicate comes out all wrong. It's like blah instead of, you know, properly communicating calmly, with the words that we should be using, rather than angry words, you know?
Speaker 1:and, of course, but continue your statement and then we'll kind of segue into our relationship. It's got to like where you're going. With that, I feel like you're naturally moving into where we were going.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the thing is, you see, is that we all have energy. Would you agree? We?
Speaker 2:all have energy right Now. That energy cannot be destroyed or created. It's there and it can be shifted, so we are in charge of shifting it. What happens is when we are in a sexist relationship where we're down, we're angry, we're resentful, you don't start talking lovingly, you don't have a nice energy and your partner feels it. Now would you go to bed with someone who's angry, resentful, who doesn't speak to you? Now? She's not going to do it, are you?
Speaker 2:And quite often I say in my videos that you've got to try and fix yourself from within. If you fix yourself from within, your energy is going to change. You do things that make you happy and they're saying you know, all the sex is also going to make you happy. You have to push that aside. So when I talk about these things, it does. I do get a lot of resistance where men say, no, it's their fault. It's their fault. But at the end of the day, the end of the day, you can't find happiness externally. You've got to find it within.
Speaker 2:You keep expecting things to change with their partner and it's not going to. Unless they start to change. Obviously they'll say, yeah, but you know you're making the man out to be the victim. No, I'm not. It takes two to tango. Obviously, if she doesn't want to do it, you've got to fix yourself first. You know, and some men say, yes, I do this, I do that, I do that. I do all the things that you tell me to do, that you say in your videos. But if the wife still doesn't want to do it, then it's actually a little bit more than that. It's actually she doesn't fancy him anymore and can't tell him. She doesn't know how to say it. When that happens, I mean, I help people with how to actually talk to each other, how to approach the subject, even approaching the subject of ethical non-monogamy. Maybe they don't want to finish the whole relationship. They love their family. They don't want to break up the dynamics of the children in the house. They've got a beautiful lifestyle and good finances and they get on.
Speaker 2:There's just one thing missing and that's where I help them with a conversation on how to introduce it. But not like I want to do a threesome, for example. It's very, very gentle getting the little hints Like what do you think about? You know, talking to like very generally, but you've got to, it's got to be, you've got to. You know, even though they're angry, they're resentful and they're frustrated, they've got to say it in a very, very kind, loving way.
Speaker 2:I always say you've got to say things with love and from the heart. If it's not with love from the heart, don't say it, because it won't come out right and you're just, whatever distance there is between you energetically, like no connection, no intimacy. It's just getting bigger and bigger and the way you communicate is the only way to make that closer. Once you've built that intimacy, then you can start getting into the sex again. You know, because it could be she's got. Fear, maybe because you see, what happens, reggie, is that we block problems to the side, don't we? We're young, we forget about it. You know, get older, forget about, push it to the side, put some people drinks, have a, take drugs, have to push these traumas aside.
Speaker 1:You know kind of suppress it for sure.
Speaker 2:Right, but it's always going to come back and bite you in the bum, reggie, always. So if it is something like that, then they have to address it, and it could be that he encourages her to address it. But you know, some people are so fearful but at the end of the day, that person's got to want to deal with it. If they don't want to deal with it, you can't control people. You can't control people. It has to come from them.
Speaker 1:I totally agree with that and I'm thinking that one of the one of the key things when and I will say my north star, so to speak, when it comes to relationships of any type and this is kind of taking me time to kind of grow into this is communication being the north star. How you feel about situations, communicate how you feel. If you feel like you have this nagging Sensation to be with somebody else, but you don't necessarily want to cheat on your partner, you're gonna have to start to communicate some things here. You're gonna start to try to talk it through, because you never know what your partner may be thinking. You never know if they're thinking the same thing. You never. You see what I'm saying, these things.
Speaker 2:No, exactly.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about them.
Speaker 2:But you know what, reggie, one of the biggest, biggest problems are at first in any relationship. It's like the honeymoon period, isn't it? You're both what's known as sexual desire spontaneous. You both don't need very much to go and do it right. But what ends up happening is that the man in general this is not everybody, but in the general the man stays Spontaneous, but the woman becomes responsive. What does responsive means? It means something sexy has to happen. So she thinks she doesn't want to do it, but actually she does, just needs a little correction. He's a little kiss on the neck just to start off, even for some women watching a porn film can get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right. So there are many men I'm not saying all men, but many men don't even realize that the sexual desire style has changed. Life gets in the way children come along, you know, work, stress, and so that's why that's not the forefront in my mind and it's like, oh, can't be bothered to do it. But when something sexy happens, it's like, oh, suddenly you'll want to do it. So that's really important. It's not that the woman does see, what ends up happening is that the man starts feeling unattractive, he starts feeling not worthy, he starts feeling like he's not important, and that is going down a big, big rabbit hole. And the thing is, you see, is that if he doesn't know that, it's not his fault, because it's just because they didn't know. It's never anybody's fault because they have not been taught communication. Their parents didn't teach them, their parents didn't teach me. It's a, it's a vicious thing that goes right the way along. So we're not talking about emotions, we're not talking about. Well, even the erogenous sounds, reggie, just mark through life as we go along. And Right, and you know what? I've got this fabulous document that I put together it's a little this book on Every single erogenous sounds.
Speaker 2:Many people already know about that. There are many that people don't even know about and I've put it in like man, woman, man, woman. So, starting from the top going right down to the bottom, it's fantastic and honestly, if men have got past, like, if men have got past the bit where they've bonded and they want to really help their woman and, of course, the man, the woman to Help the man too. I mean, you know, the end of the day, there's one bit that they find very, very good then, like you know, but also the is the neck. You know, even over the eyelids. Men have got areas up there, All sorts of areas, but women don't know that. And between the two of them it's like tantric sex. The goal doesn't have to be sex at the end, you know that part there don't need that, honestly, with tantric sex it's just the act and Discovering each other and turning each other on and sensual. Let us start, you know.
Speaker 1:For sure. And and where do you find a book for for asking for a friend? Where do you find that book?
Speaker 2:at Carolina, you say my link, like it's link tree, caroline, each in you so. So link. So it goes Lin Tr W four slash Caroline Shenia. So it's written here so everyone can see it. But yeah, if you go there you can find it. But Let me speak to Bethany to make sure it's more readily available. I'll make it. In the moment you have to go through a few things, but I'll, I'll put it on the link tree so people can find it because, honestly, it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Speaker 1:Yeah, relationships here as we get more into the relationship, because I want to talk about this and then I'm gonna kind of get into Alternative livestock. You mentioned a couple things that are are treating to me there. So, relationships I've already talked about the importance of kind of like the communication factor. Right, it's got to be. You can't whether things are in a honeymoon period, whether in the mid, whether you feel like things are kind of winding down, because things do, that things happen. Communicating through all the stages eases it a bit if you're communicating through all the stages and you know exactly where people are at.
Speaker 1:So One of the things that I used to talk about with people who would get into new relationships with people, and I would say in the Beginning, you can tell me if this is crazy or not. I would tell them in the beginning. One of the most important things, especially as adults, you have to ask Not necessarily write out what kind of sexual not necessarily sexual appetite, but the frequency. What is the expectation? Somebody might be good with once a month, somebody might be have to have it three to four times a week. I find these things are good to get discussed pretty early.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Nobody gets Blindsided by it, because you can find people that fit into every category. You can find somebody who likes it three to four times a week, but I think that you have to Bring these things up rather early, as uncomfortable as they meet, maybe to not waste time. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're absolutely right, you see, because at first it's the spontaneous Sexual desire style. So they think it's an illusion because they think, wow, this one wants to do it five times a day. It's amazing, but it always piters out and it's really clear to say, as, as a ballpark in your other relationships, you know, you know after a while how does it go. It's very important, and that's the thing that people don't talk about the beginning of a relationship, you're absolutely right, reggie, that needs to be fleshed out straight away, because you're gonna be quickly disappointed, otherwise, and you know what, if it's it's been like that before that's gonna happen again.
Speaker 1:It. Do you find what is the easiest way to Approach it for guys and women who may be listening, because you know some people. It's. It's, I think, especially with us, when you have talked, when you have shows and podcasts is very easy to get on with conversations and have them rather up front. But some people are a little bit shyer and feel like these subjects are very taboo. How do they come out of that shell or how do they ask that in a way would not without feeling Strange?
Speaker 2:you know, what I would say is, when you're doing it. When you're doing it, just say how often do you love doing this? Right now, I know you like doing it now, but what? About later on. Do you want to do it once a week, twice a week? What is it generally for you? While she's loose and while there's? Let's face it, when we're in a sexual mood where we don't have inhibitions, do we we just go in with the?
Speaker 1:flow don't we.
Speaker 2:So I would say then, just subtly through it, like that, even afterwards, when you relax and you've got your arm around you, woman, or whatever your man's got his arm around you, just say what do you like? This was amazing, what we've had. Really, say how amazing it was. How often in general in relationships, do you like this all the time, or is it pitter out a little bit? Do you have less? It's not a question that is bad, but especially when the woman or the man is in the middle of either in the middle of it towards the end, probably more towards the end when you're actually finished, it's probably a good time to say it.
Speaker 2:Because otherwise it's like out the blue. It's like, how do you start it? A lot of people find that really difficult, but when you're doing it, you kind of loosened up. It's true, isn't it? You're all loosened up, you're all like loving, you're amazing and you're on a real high. See, what you want to do is catch somebody when they're in their high energy. When you're doing it, you're on a really high energy. You've got your sexy cheeks on and you're looking amazing and feeling amazing. That's the time to do it.
Speaker 1:I think that's also a time to introduce fetishes and stuff like that Another thing I'm talking about is the fetishes, I would say you might have certain things that people turn people on, caroline, that will completely turn another person off and I don't feel like you can suppress that fetish for an entirety of a relationship, I think at some point you're going to come back to what you really like. Is that the time to discuss that kind of stuff as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but also, like I don't know if the person likes to watch a film, or you can say do you know what? I was just looking, I was just talking to someone the other day and they were mentioning is what do you think about that? And you can start by going what do you not like? I want to do threesomes. Do you want to come with me? Or what do you think? I know? I mean it could be toys, it could be introducing toys. I've got a good video on the students introducing toys, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's like you know, the most important thing is not to make the person feel like they're inadequate, that they have to do this because it's not good enough. That's what you have to avoid. Say how much you love them, say how beautiful they are. How do you have a fantastic sexual love life with them. And say how about? What do you think if we enhanced it with this, just adding a bit of spice? What do you think? And kind of say or have one and just have one. Say, look, I saw a review on this the other day. I thought I'd buy it.
Speaker 2:What did you ever go with it? What do you think? You know you've got to get that permission because you can't just bowl in with something you know you've got and the worst thing is to make that person feel inadequate in any way, that they're not good enough, you don't love them, they're not beautiful anymore, you know that kind of thing. But I know there are many, many men. I mean, when I was in my sexual peak, goodness knows, reggie, I wouldn't go out with anybody older than 30. And I was 46 at the time and the youngest was probably 22. And all those men, like you see, this is this is what my observations are. This is not. This is not. This is just literally. You know my observation. So I found that men who are in their sexual peak in it I'd say 17s or whatever, right to at least 35, right.
Speaker 2:But the woman doesn't have any of that until later. So what ends up happening is the man has got two sorry two goals in his life. Right, he's got work, wants to get up in his career and finding out everything you possibly can about the bedroom. There's no room really for marriage.
Speaker 2:I'd say 80% of men. Things may have changed now, but this, this was probably going back 10 years now, but you know, I don't think it's changed that much. However, the woman in her 20s generally, I think things have really changed a lot. But what I observed is that women that they're looking for the man they want to get married, but of course the man doesn't want to get married, does he? So he, he, he, he kind of holds her back, let me, goes out with her for four years and she suddenly thinks, oh my God, this isn't happening. So she finishes it.
Speaker 2:By that time she's about 28, 29, 30, maybe a bit older. Women are getting a bit older now. Women are getting a bit older now. So they're they're probably more like 32, 33, getting married. So what ends up happening is that they they think, oh my God, I've got to find a new man, I've got to find him, get to know him, I've got to then get married or have children first, whatever. That takes time. So they end up saying, well, I'll just get, I'll just get this one, he's good enough. But what ends up happening is that they get married to that person, and then the children, and then the focus. So they do it every now and again. That's fine. She never really found it in properly in the first place, but then you see when they get to their forties.
Speaker 2:Now many, many women are going through their sexual peak. One of two things happens. One met her man around 35 and that's when he was ready to get married. Then he was ready. He's got his career now. Learn everything you possibly can about the bedroom. He's all clues up, ready to get married now and the woman is ready. So those two have met each other in the right way and they probably really do love each other.
Speaker 2:But the other woman who was with that man, frazier, and then he, and then he, then he, then he she realized he didn't want him. They never really loved each other that much in general, this is right and he was a victim of that. So she gets the 40. What ends up happening is that in general not everybody, but in general after a certain age, men and women start to lose. You know, they don't. They eat a bit more, maybe that goes to the gym a bit more, you know, and so they. They start getting a bit unfit and the stamina gets lost. So women of about 40, some of them are quite fit and their husbands can't keep up with them. So what do they do? They go and get the 20 year old where he just wanted to avoid, for sure, right.
Speaker 2:He just wants to learn. She doesn't want commitment anymore. She's quite confident in her body. She doesn't give a damn about anything, she doesn't want to have fun. So that woman either leaves her husband the ones that got married later on, where they left, they get divorced, but the other ones, they stay married. They just have a kiss and a cuddle every now and again. Some women actually say right, I've got a hotel room, you come back footballers. Usually You're going to come back with me just for the night. That's it. That's it. Marriage doesn't affect anything, that's it. That's a small area that I've witnessed.
Speaker 1:No, it's interesting because I want to now segue from that into the alternative lifestyle, which is very intriguing to me and I definitely want to spend the most time on it. It's something that we had talked about a while back ago, whether it's the polyamory, and you brought up a few different terms. You brought up ethical, non-monogamy and sexless, and I will kind of tell you how this kind of has affected my life in this sense. So in my life from a relationship standpoint I'm a relationship now. From a relationship standpoint, the biggest thing is trust.
Speaker 1:I haven't always been the best person. It is. I haven't always been the most faithful person. I haven't always been the best person, but I think time has made me a better person because of those situations. I've learned from those situations so I will never cheat on a partner. It would always be a conversation, but I thought I got to leave. I got to leave. I would never be sneaking around and stuff like that, because I believe that trust is like the centerpiece of any relationship. It's got to be trust there, no matter which direction it goes. So for me it would never be.
Speaker 1:I would have struggles getting married until I feel like there's no desire for other women and that desire just seems to never wane. But it doesn't necessarily have to do with being with another person. We've got to discuss that. It doesn't have to do with I don't want another life. I don't want a vacation with another person. I don't want to go through holidays with another person. You know what I mean? No-transcript, the one person that you kind of spend your life with your partner but then you have times where, just like you were saying with the web, you just want to have fun and kind of get that, get that other part over with, and then you come back to your life. You don't really want your life interrupted. What are your thoughts kind of on that when you're approaching these alternative lifestyle conversations?
Speaker 2:so we have been pigeonholed. We get born into a world where we are put into a little box and said you are going to be non monogamous. Now the thing is is that is an organist, but the thing is, you see, is that we are all Completely different. We can't all fit into that pigeonhole. So what happens is we get married and then all those people that want a little bit of fun, they have a desire, can't do it and they get suppressed. So what I would say to those people is that it's more and more common now to have, like you mentioned, a polyamorous Raceship. That means multiple lovers. Now, you can't just go into one of these things just like that. You have a contract. You have a contract now on one of my podcasts it's called sex and multiple lovers is a it's a male Relationship coach who specializes in polyamory and he explains in that that you have to have a contract between all three of you. What do you agree with? Do you agree with One going off with the other on their own, or do you want it all three? Or what kind of jealousy? What happens with jealousy? What happens with families? What happens with children is a lot to consider.
Speaker 2:So Think about it. You've got intimacy. Now people obviously just think about physical intimacy, but that's not all. There is no for Intimacies, their spiritual intimacy. There's intelligent intimacy, there's emotional intimacy and the physical. Now, not one person Can fit all of that. You will probably have somebody you have amazing Conversations with you, really are Intimately in, intellectual with them, loads in common philosophy, books, whatever, or history, whatever. You really took well with them. Then there's another one which is a real physical intimacy. Got such Sensuous sex with that person but not really intellectual conversations with. But then there's probably another one who's really in, who's really spiritual. So you cannot expect one person to be all of it for you. It's impossible. So the thing about polyamory relationships is it? It hones in on each one of those things. So you get a bit of everything. You're completely fulfilled as a person. That's it.
Speaker 2:In fact, there was a really good episode of New Amsterdam on Netflix where this man was in in the hospital bed. This woman came to see him so he said is mr, what of his name is? Yet, yeah, he's over there. The young man came in and said is blah, blah here. Yes, yes, he's in that room. He went over there, kiss the woman and the man Right. We thought, oh my goodness. Then another young man came along, said Where's mr Blabby? I said always over there, no one's going looking at each other like that. And he went and kissed the man, the woman and the bloke in the bed it was a is the polyamorous relationship with four. Now that was really good to see because it's getting more and more common.
Speaker 1:So kind of like normalizing, and you know what's interesting is, I think from a Back in the day this seems like something, that which is so far away from from what the idea of relationship would be. But for my personal life, I know people in this relationship, so it's been brought a lot closer to me. I know about the boundaries that they've discussed, about lines that that you will never cross and lines that they don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Both people have these lines and I feel like what you said is very important in a sense of like there's got to be Some kind of boundaries you know you will. For me personally, it would be total separate life. I would never want somebody coming to my house. You know it'd be a total separate life, you know. But I think that that's different for different people. Now, one of the things that you talked about that was very interesting is you were talked about Non ethical, non monogamy. That's right touch on that. Touch on that term.
Speaker 2:Yes. So so you're in a relationship, you absolutely love your wife, you absolutely love the household, your whole lifestyle, you love the finance and you love your kids, but you're not getting sex. What one fact. Very famous Coach Says her name is Wednesday Martin. She said it's a little bit like going out and playing tennis. You, when you go out and play tennis, you're playing with other players, but you're not. You're not gonna go home with any of them, are you? You're coming home, right, and that's how we should see it. You're going out just to fulfill a need and you can agree, like, for example I've said this before in my other relationships you know, if you want to go off and do something, do it with that. I don't want to know about it. Make sure you put something on the end of it and I don't hope and I'm not hurt, it's fine. So that's my, my rules, but you may have all kind of different rules, maybe. Maybe they want to know. Some people want to know where they are, because other ways they're lying you know.
Speaker 2:So it's perfectly, is Perfectly okay. And and the reason why it's called ethical is because you are green cheating is not ethical when you have a non. If you have an ethical non monogamy, it means you're sitting there with your partner and you are making an agreement, so they are happy that you're doing it and you're happy that they're happy. You have to do that. You can't. You know people. People think they can just go out and just go and cheat. Maybe they can and maybe the the other part, the other half doesn't find out. But it's not nice, is it? It's really not. It's not kind to do that.
Speaker 2:But if they're very happy, like in my, in my ex marriage I I didn't want to sleep with my husband because he was a narcissist, sociopath who's horrible, and I didn't want to sleep with him anymore and he stopped. He stopped, he'd stopped touching me and my mom said to me years later when I divorced. She said can I think he was with other women? I said you know what, mom, I'm happy if he was, because I wasn't having to do it with him. Right, my relationship wasn't a good relationship, but he, but with a happy relationship where you don't want to Ruin the equilibrium you have in the house, it's perfectly okay. And if he's always coming, you know it can't be like a relationship like polyamory is the relationship. If you agree, then that's fine.
Speaker 2:But with ethical non monogamy it's going out, doing the deed, coming. It's not like having an affair. It's doing the deed and coming back. But it's whatever you want. If, like I know a lot of men that have written to me and they, their wives, said go and have a Boyfriend, a girlfriend, go and get yourself a girlfriend, they agree with that. That's what they're happy with. So it can be. Anything is what you agree. It's really, really important, reggie, for all your listeners.
Speaker 1:I think that that's Kind of coming back to the whole trust thing, right kind of.
Speaker 2:You don't catch.
Speaker 1:You're not gonna randomly go to the grocery store and see your partner there with another random person, like you know Stuff like that and that's just so yeah, so some of it might be make sure it's not here, go somewhere else, go in a computer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no. Do you feel like people have a hard time? Because how do you, how do you even start to approach a subject like that, especially when? Because I feel like, personally, there be a lot at least, I can't give you a specific percentage on how many less Divorces they would be if these kind of conversations happen. Is a percentage there, though? Even if it's 3%, 5%, there is a percentage there that, if these conversations happen, because a lot of Sometimes people don't want to sex is one thing, but a life, building a life with a person is something totally different.
Speaker 1:There are two totally different things. So I feel like with some people, it's hard for them to even broach these conversations. So how would you recommend somebody? Let's say they've been in a relationship. Let's say it's been in a relationship for a while, about a decade because you know, things kind of get stale after a while. With some people they get into a routine, the routine of like treadmill, a life, I kind of call it, where you're just kind of doing everything. You know what shows you're going to watch at night, you know what you're going to eat, you know what time you're going to call your partner and discuss these things.
Speaker 1:And then next thing, you look no, you look up seven years or past. How do you broach that subject when you might be a whole decade or so into relationship? How do you broach that subject without making another person feel inadequate? Because that's why I feel like I would want to stay away from you. Make another person fight there just not enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So when it comes to communication, you've got to, it's got to be like, it's got to be very soft. So what I mean by that is is that the first of all, you're going to make the person still feel like they're attractive, that they're still got it still, you know they still love them and still have a good sex life. Right, it's just not enough of it. So you want to subtly say, oh, I've just been looking at this, you know, I've been looking at this, for example, been watching Reggie Johnson's you know podcast, and he was saying that you know, it might be something that we could consider. What do you think about ethical non monogamy? Is it something that you think would be all right? And she'll probably say, oh no, no, no god, oh god, that's against all my principles. Then you leave it, but it will start. You drop the seed, you will start thinking about it and she might. In fact, I can tell you a story. There were two men that decided that they wanted to have to go swinging right.
Speaker 2:And their wives were dead against it, dead against it. And in the end they said look, why don't you just try it once? Why don't you just try it once? This is them both doing it with swinging right. But they said why don't you just try it once? I said, okay, we'll try it once, right, because it's not as if they didn't love them anymore. They're just like adding a bit of excitement. So the women go with them and do you know what? The women were enjoying it so much.
Speaker 2:The men said I think we need to need to rein it back a bit now I said no, no, no, no, we are really enjoying this, so it can actually. You know, that's just an example with swinging, where they both want to add a little bit of jeunesse quoi to the relationship. But with ethical non-monogamy it really is a question of making sure that your wife knows, or your husband knows, they still love you, they still care about you. You know there's no question of going off with anybody else, but they have, you know, they have needs, and what do you think about just me going out to get it and coming back? But you have to say it very gently just what do you think about this? First of all, Not even saying they're going to do it. I was just watching Reggie and he was talking about ethical non-monogamy. Have you heard of that before? She'll probably say no, what is it?
Speaker 2:And then you'll say, well, it's, it's you know, agreeing that one of the partners who's who wants the sex, not the one who doesn't, the one who does want sex just goes out and just gets a bit of sex and that's and that's it, and then see what they say. It really is a question of excuse the phrase. Suck it and see. You've got to just talk very gently about it and just put little hints. First, what do you think? I've just been listening to this. I've just seen someone talk about this toy or something like that. What do you think about it? Because some people probably don't want to go through the ethical monogamy route, but they actually want to get a bit more exciting in the bedroom and that's where toys can come in dressing up and getting. And maybe some people are so vanilla they don't even think about it. You know, you can try and just be doing.
Speaker 2:The most important thing, reggie, for all your listeners or watchers is to make sure the partner still feels love, feels like they are still part of their life and they are still good. There's nothing wrong with their sex and the way they are. It's just they want a little bit, add a bit of spice or they want to just. It doesn't matter about them. They don't like. The woman probably just doesn't want to do it and she feels bad. A lot of women feel really bad about it, you see. So you know, then you don't have to feel so bad going for a massage. I know one man. He's been 50 years. She doesn't want to, she didn't want to sleep within 50 years, but he goes out for a special massage every week. That's what that's it. And in his case she doesn't know it's anything else, but it doesn't hurt the relationship. He just goes off, has his special massage and goes home again and it's all fine. So it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Go, go, continue your statement, then. I'm going to kind of wrap it up here, but I want to continue what you were just about to say, you see you see horses for courses.
Speaker 2:You have to assess your situation and see what's going to be better, right, I don't. I don't think cheating is good. But to be honest, cheating is more like an affair, maybe having one night stands and things like that and then going back to life. But if you're just going for a massage, I mean, I know you're going to get a lot backlash with this, but it really does depend on the situation. For that man who's been doing it for 50 years, it's not a set his relationship at all. He's still loving to his wife, he still comes home, but it just goes for a massage and she thinks he's going off for a physio, physio massage or something every week.
Speaker 1:You know you know, what's interesting is that you know people will want to live their life and live yours also, and I don't believe that you should ever let that that happen. We all get one life, and when I mean we all get one life, that means, if you subscribe to these lifestyles and this is something that you want to do you should have a conversation, because you're going to look up one day and it's going to be over.
Speaker 1:If you don't ever want to do this and you don't. This is not comfortable with you. You want a partner that doesn't want to to do these kinds of things, you should go find that person. There's nothing wrong with you as well. There's nothing wrong with either one of these things Like. To me it's just a fit right. Like, if you want to have certain things, let's say let's talk about going to the gym and let's let's take the sex out of it.
Speaker 1:If you like a person that goes to the gym two to three times a day or two, three times a week and you meet them and that's what they did and that's what turns you on and that's what you like, there's nothing wrong with that. If you like a person that never goes to the gym because they won't make you go to the gym, because you don't like going to the gym. So you know, I've met people on both sides of this. You know people who didn't like to date Jim Raps because they tried to drag them to the gym all the time and they didn't want to go to the gym. They want to just say I don't need to tell you the chips not the healthiest life, but it's your life. It's your choice If that's the life that you have chosen to take. So I feel the same thing here with a lot of stuff. I think, at the end of the day, it's about you and the person that you're in a relationship.
Speaker 1:It's about you having an honest conversation your individual happiness exactly, and you chasing, pursuing that happiness kind of relentlessly, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you see, if you're not happy, what kind of a person you marry to? If that person can't be happy because they've got a deep need that's unfulfilled, they're just not going to be a happy person. If they just let that person go out and play tennis once a week, then they're going to have a happy person in the house and it might end up being that that happy person will make them feel happy and may want to do it with them. They may want to do it because they've changed their energy and they're happy again. If you're enjoying life, then everything comes to you. You're honestly. This is what I try and explain to me. If you're happy in your heart, deep in your soul, everything else works out.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, caroline. I could not have wrapped that up any better than what you just did there. Now tell people I think we talked about this before but tell people where they could find you at. You're looking for this kind of stuff here, this kind of advice. Where can they get it?
Speaker 2:Okay. So if you go to Caroline at explosion on TikTok, I'm there hundreds of videos on all sorts of topics about sex, social relationships and even general relationships themselves. You can go to YouTube. I'm there again, caroline at sex explosion. And on TikTok I've got Caroline sex explosion and sex explosion, which is the Spotify, but actually as a video as well, and, of course, on Spotify. If you go on Spotify, you have to do sex explosion with exclamation mark on the end, because if not you'll just get a whole load of tunes and I'm the only podcast and you can always tell we've got the explosion of color behind me, so you can see that it's me.
Speaker 1:So yeah, they've got any medical second DM me if they want as well, and they'll be happy to tell you very nice multiple ways and, caroline, we're I'm going to have you back on because we got to touch on the sexless relationships. We can do a whole show on just that one subject. Absolutely, we're going to have to have you back on and I definitely appreciate you taking some time out with me here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much, Reggie.
Speaker 1:Absolutely this, reggie and ATL. You can check us out. Search our heart radio, google podcast, apple podcast, spotify, wherever you find your podcast. Ladies and gents, thank you for listening. Talk to you later.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bye, bye.